Peter the Wise
How Pontius became a pilot and Sir Peter Ustinov became a protestant: An interview with the universal genius about his family, his belief and his role in the movie "Luther"
INTERVIEW: ARND BRUMMER AND ARIANE HEIMBACH
PICTURES: STEPHAN RABOLD
An engine roars in the fifth floor of a noble hotel in Berlin. A racing car seems to dash towards the half opened door wing of a suite. The press agent jumps to the door and pushes it wide open. The superstar rolls in: Sir Peter Ustinov in an electric wheelchair. One last time he imitates the roar of the motor and then switches to the squeaking of an old wheelchair before he bursts out barking. One push on a button and the wheelchair stops. Ustinov aims with his cane at the photographer and fires some imaginary shots, then he changes his mind and blesses everyone around with a papal gesture. Then he rises and climbs the red sofa. There he sits with a regal air and grins. Audience with the King of Humour. And the beginning of a perfectly normal crazy chat with Peter Ustinov.
CHRISMON: Sir Peter, the spring of your movie career was marked by a persecutor of Christians: Nero in "Quo vadis". Now, in the autumn of a world career, you are playing Frederick the Wise in "Luther". He is the saver of the reformer. Is it a historic coincidence that you always get in touch with subjects like these?
SIR PETER USTINOV: I don't know. I have played so many roles in my life. Murderers, crooks, detectives. But, my grandfather certainly would have been very interested in me playing Luther's saver. He was a cavalry officer in Russia. He rode on a horse presented to him by his father, who was a very reinless man. Unfortunately, the horse shared this attitude with my great-grandfather and bucked off my grandfather during a manoeuvre. His back made him lie on a plank for one year. That was in Saratow, where his properties were located. To that time, the German Volga-Republic lay at the other side of the Volga. One day, a pastor came along and brought his very pretty daughter with him. My grandfather fell in love with this lady and became a protestant, so that he could marry her.
CHRISMON: This sounds like a great romance.
USTINOV: Not at all. Just listen how the story goes: After the marriage, my father had to go into exile for 40 years. Because, at that time, the Russian army did allow to be a protestant, but not to turn into one. So, he went to Wurttemberg, because the Queen of Wurttemberg was a daughter of the Czar. Olga. She was very kind to every Russian who had trouble with her father. And so it came that my grandfather became a Wurttemberger. But once he was Wurttemberger, his wife left him for an Australian Captain at Sea. In the following, my grandfather emigrated to Palestine, opened a park hotel and became acquainted with my grandmother who was half Ethiopian and half Jew.
CHRISMON: And what was the reason for you being born in London but christened as a Protestant in Schwaebisch Gmuend?
USTINOV: That was a funny story, too. My grandmother insisted on me being christened in the water of the river Jordan. My father thought that this was too far away from London, so both agreed to meet, if you will, in the middle. And that was Schwaebisch Gmuend. 
CHRISMON: And the water from the Jordan…
USTINOV: …was brought by my grandmother in an old ceramic hot water bottle. Unfortunately, the reverend suffered from the initial stage of Parkinson's Disease. He shook so much that he let go of the bottle and it shattered on the floor of the church. When you looked down, so I was told, you could see how dirty the Jordan water was, with amoebas and mud. So, I was christened in ordinary tap water.
CHRISMON: Do you regard Luther as a typically German character?
USTINOV: No. But the interesting thing about him is that he started the whole reformation because he thought the people in Rome were not catholic enough. And in my opinion this is paradox. His thoughts were really highly intelligent and very modern. I feel very much at home in his way of thinking – even though I am not religious.
CHRISMON: Are you an agnostic?
USTINOV: It is good that you ask. It is a good sign if you have to ask me what I believe in as this shows it is not shimmering through my behaviour. You should judge people for their behaviour and not for what they think. This is what makes the whole inquisition ridiculous. They killed and tortured people just because they were thinking the wrong things. Belief is a deeply personal and intimate matter. Nobody knows how God looks like. I prefer to have my own perceptions rather than having them mediated by an agent.
CHRISMON: The Protestants speak of the priesthood of all believers…
USTINOV: Yes. It is like with my love for the theatre. I do not have to sleep with an agent in order to have these feelings (laughs).
CHRISMON: You once said: "the older you get, the more you feel that the soul is likely to be immortal. The body gets out of shape, but the soul has not really changed much." Is this your creed?
USTINOV: Yes. I certainly believe that the soul exists. And if there is one thing that is eternal, it will be the soul. Presently, however, I think that nothing is eternal. But I am willing to be amazed every moment. I think Thomas is one of the most touching characters in the whole Bible.
CHRISMON: Because the so-called disbelieving disciple first had to touch the wounds of Jesus before he could believe in resurrection?
USTINOV: Yes, he was sceptical.
CHRISMON: Are you interested in the stories of the Bible?
USTINOV: Of course, I am interested in the Bible. But I think the pope is even more exciting. I really like him. Even though I do not share all of his ideas. This is irrelevant. You have many friends who are not of the same opinion. I appreciate that the pope tries to be ecumenical within the frames of his own corset of faith. You just have to see with what willpower he kisses archbishops coming from a totally different church with funny hats and curtains on their head (laughs).
CHRISMON: He also organised the legendary World Day of Prayer for Peace in Assisi together with the leaders of the difference religions, among them the Dalai Lama.
USTINOV: Right. I think the Dalai Lama with his ideas is one step ahead of the pope. I know him very well. He always says: Keep your own belief. Who walks down the path of belief will finally arrive at the right destination.
CHRISMON: Let's get back to the Bible: As the humorist that you are, can you find parts in the Bible that amuse you?
USTINOV: Not so much in the Bible, but rather what people make out of it. I have often listened to sermons in England and recognised many a trick of the Anglicans. For example, the "Well you know syndrome".
CHRISMON: What is that?
USTINOV: (with raised voice, sententious like a preacher:) And Jesus came up into a high place, saw the woman, raised his hand upon her forehead and said: Go thy way. (Now suddenly matter-of-fact) Well, you know, only yesterday in the High Street I met a woman ... (bursts out into dark laughter.)
CHRISMON: You mean the very abrupt transition to the ordinary, the creation of wrong analogies?
USTINOV: The zigzagging. I know another story in that context. Once there was an Irish school in Dublin. The children were supposed to paint the escape to Egypt. Everybody painted it in a conventional way, like with a camel and so on. Only one little boy painted a plane. With Maria, Joseph and the baby in one window. And the teacher asked: Patrick, what are you doing? And he answered: Well, we were supposed to paint the escape to Egypt, weren't we? And she: I recognise the holy Maria and Joseph, but who is the man in the front? Answer (in broad Erse): Pontsches, the Peuilet. Pontius, the pilot! ( bursts out into laughter again.)
CHRISMON: Let's talk about your role in the movie 'Luther': Was the relationship of Frederick the Wise to this professor from Wittenberg more on the theological side or rather like to a pop star?
USTINOV: Yes, doubt unites people whereas conviction separates them.
CHRISMON: In the movie, Luther is shown as a human being torn by doubt. You once appreciated doubt as a driving force of human existence.
USTINOV: Yes, doubt unites people whereas conviction separates them.
CHRISMON: There is an evangelic theologian who says: Well doubted is half believed.
USTINOV: Not bad. But it is funny that the theologians who counselled us during the movie so much doubted that Frederick the Wise and Luther met at all. I said: There must be a scene where they meet each other. The moment in which he receives the German translation of the Bible as a present from Luther is the climax of their relationship. That is when Frederick the Wise understands instantly that he does not need to defend Luther anymore. From that point on as everybody could read the Bible Rome lost its Latin monopoly on it.
CHRISMON: And so you created a scene together with the actor who plays Luther, Joseph Fiennes.
USTINOV: Right. I found that very important. I asked the theologians: Why don't you believe that both have met? And they answered: Because there is no written record for that. And I replied: Do you think it is possible that I have a relationship to Doctor Hans Küng in Tuebingen? And the theologians: No, as this is a totally different world. And I said: I was president of an UNESCO meeting in Valencia and he was a delegate. We argued for a long time and became friends. You could read that nowhere, either. Does that mean we have not met?
CHRISMON: You are also president of the World Federalist Organisation, an association of cosmopolitans...
USTINOV: …which is also the secretariat of all non-governmental organisations that have fought for an international court.
CHRISMON: And now America is concluding bilateral contracts with Cambodia…
USTINOV: …in order to spoil that. However, the World Court exists. Nobody can take it away anymore.
CHRISMON: You founded an institute for Prejudice Research in Budapest. What is this institute dealing with?
USTINOV: I have just written a new book with two colleagues: "Achtung! Vorurteile" (Attention Prejudices). One topic for example is that babies are born completely without prejudices. Prejudices come into their lives at a later stage. It happens through three instances which all of us are praising: the family, the church and school.
CHRISMON: What are your personal reasons that make Prejudice Research that important to you?
USTINOV: Among others, it was because I was very upset about the war in Iraq. It is the character of George Bush and all those American fanatics that is to blame. My attitude is by no means anti-American. However, I am absolutely against this regime. These are traitors of the American ideals. And I am really shocked that the Americans have not realised that yet. Politicians must have an opinion of their own. That is out of question. Democracy as a whole is based on opinions – and on change of opinions. But when opinions freeze they become prejudices. They are dead opinions that live on only out of tradition.
CHRISMON: In your life, you have never restricted yourself to just one occupation. You have written plays and screenplays, you are a brilliant music analyst - in short: an interdisciplinary person. Are you someone who is always under pressure to perform?
USTINOV: No, all this simply happened to me somehow. I had no other choice. I always had big hopes, but never big expectations. This is why I found all the good things that happened to me so astounding. And when people ask: Is there nothing you regret in your life? I have to answer that I never had time to regret something. Life is too short for that.
CHRISMON: You never had time for regret? Does that mean you were never depressive?
USTINOV: Once, I wrote a play that failed. Of course, I was depressed then. But that very moment I received the script for 'Quo Vadis' which was the best role I ever played in a movie. If the play had been a success I never could have made the movie. Since that time I think: You can't say that an experience is only good or only bad.
CHRISMON: Some people see chances first, others the risks. Obviously, you belong to those taking risks. Was that the reason for you to participate in something as arduous as a movie shooting once again?
USTINOV: The reason was that it is just something I am good at. And sometimes it is good to practise. Just like an old cellist. And besides, I like to work with people that have my respect. Eric Till is one of the best directors I have ever worked with. The first time we made a movie together was 35 years ago. I am touched that he is now 70 and I am 82. And we understand each other on an instinctive level without having to discuss.
CHRISMON: How do you deal with the fact that the body gets weaker at old age?
USTINOV: I am used to it. I've been knowing this carriage and this chassis for a long time now. And I know that I now have to refuel more often than I had to when the motor was still new.
CHRISMON: Thank you very much, we wish you a lot of energy for all the important things that you are still going to achieve.
USTINOV: Don't exaggerate.
Courtesy of chrismon
Issue 10/2003
